New guy looking for help

My wife was diagnosed with Neuroproliferative Vestibulodynia earlier this year. After 19 years of pain on her part and rejection on mine, there is finally a diagnosis and a recommended treatment....surgery. Instead of being happy, she has made the sadistic decision to deny me any sex at all (but that started in July 2013, and she did not tell me till October) and has no intention of having the surgery. So in the midst of all the rejection, anger, frustration, hopelessness, and despair, I really have a strong sex drive. Life sucks, then you die.

We have 2 kids.

I was wondering if anyone else has a similar situation and what did you do?

No offense but you sound really negative about it. If you had any idea at all how bad this hurts I think you would change your tune around. I did however have the surgery and it was a lifesaver for me. Its great that YOU have a sex drive, but your wife probably doesn't because of all the pain it causes her when she does have sex. She doesn't need the pressure of having your sex drive dictate her life. If she wants to talk about the surgery I'm all for it, it truly was the best decision for me. But I would suggest rather than going off of your needs try putting into perspective what sex feels like for her. And if she hasn't told you it feels like someone pouring acid on an open wound. It hurts. Like hell. It's not sadistic at all, when you feel like your vagina is gonna split in half during sex you tend to shy away from it. I don't think this has anything to do with YOU but the fact that SHE is in pain. Offer support you have no idea how physically and emotionally awful this disease is.

Yea, I agree. Men seem to not have any concept how horrible and awful this is, and how much it really does hurt, its uncomfortable just walking, sitting,, being alive, etc. On top of all this , is the way your man treats you and makes you feel. Its not easy having your womenhood, women parts takin away from you. And its down right cruel to In Love and attracted to someone, you cant have sex with. The man you want to be with, and you live every minute of the waking day and night, everyday of your life ANTICIPATING the day he is gonna cheat on you and leave you because of this problem.
Your man treats you either like your rejecting him (which in turn makes him hate you , and feel passive aggressive towards you) or like you just don't like sex, and your a prude. Mostly he acts like your rejecting HIM, and your NOT! It FUCKING HURTS! You have a sincere problem that you want to go away as much as he does, and it FUCKING SUCKS!
Most women don't wanna deny their men sex, and really love sex themselves, by the way.

Nothing hurts worse then not only being dysfunctional as a women, but watching the one you Love and want to connect with so badly drift away from you and slowly begin to hate you, and fight with you as the relationship breaks down and you bring out the worst in eachother.

Its sad to see Love die, that you know would still be alive if you could just have sex like a normal person.
It changes everything. everything. I don't care what anyone says. Sex is very important in a relationship. I know how hard it is. and I want a baby too. and I dread my man cheating on me and getting someone else pregnant. On the deepest level of being female, I feel like a nothing.
Atleast with me, I showed my men I was trying. Everyday, fighting to try to figure this out.

I agree, I don't know how much it physically hurts. My wife had spent 18+ years not letting me know how much it really hurts. Pretty much the first year she decided she didn't like intercourse. About the next 18 years she has spent rejecting me (reject the pain, reject me, whatever it's the same result). Ya, we had intercourse but she never enjoyed it and that kept driving me to try harder, different, something so that she actually enjoy intercourse for once. Not much of a man.

So if it hurts so bad, and she wanted to ever enjoy intercourse with me, and become a whole woman, the logical answer is to do whatever it took. Instead, she has completely rejected me sexually (ALL forms of sex, not just intercourse!!!!!) and has no interest or desire to have the surgery. I dang near have to beg just to get a hug. There have been many weeks go by without ANY physical contact. I mean none, no hand holding, kisses, high-fives, nothing. I'm starving for physical love and affection and she could not care less.

Last summer she had the brilliant idea that we should work on reparing out physical/sexual relationship with some non-intercourse sex. I was not all that excited, but I agreeded to go along with it. I figured it was better than nothing and maybe I might learn to like it, but figured I would never like it as much as intercourse. Well after one week (that I enjoyed , but admit I still wanted intercourse) she decided no more sex (Any). Nice bait-and-switch!

She has spent most of the time since fall of 2013 being mad at me for not refusing to want intercourse for the last 19 years because it hurt her. Well excuse me for being a man. Yes, I want to enjoy intercourse. I want to enjoy intercourse with someone that wants to enjoy it with me. That someone is supposed to be my wife. I really like sex. No amount of pain on her part will ever change how much I want/desire intercourse. Her pain should only change frequency and what we do. Instead, she has completely rejected me sexually. Anger? Bitterness? Resentment? Ya, I admit I have some of all that. But dammit, I want to have sex with my wife!!!!!!!

Clear as mud? Yep, and 13 years of marriage counseling has not made it much clearer either.

So please don't lecture me on patience, care or even support. I'm convinced that our relationship will start making progress in the sexual area the day she changes her mind, and not before.

One thing that Lavose mentined seems very familiar. "Your man treats you either like your rejecting him (which in turn makes him hate you , and feel passive aggressive towards you) or like you just don't like sex, and your a prude." Yes, like I said the technical details don't matter. Rejecting sex is the same as rejecting me, the end result is the same. As for the passive agressive, I was a little surprised to see that. She has been complaining lately that I "never" initiate any physical contact. From my perspective, she has rejected me so completely for so long, I find it hard to belive she wants anything to do with me at all. So in fear of more rejection, I tend to not reach out for a hug, even though I desperately need one. So I guess I see my passive side. Maybe (I'm not into psycho babble) the resentment and frustration I feel is the agressive side, that can/should not be allowed out in the open. Of course it comes out sometimes, but not often. So it's strange to me that this happens to others.

No shit. She thinks that if she gets close at all to you you'll force the issue and shes already uncomfortable with sex. If you're this vocal to us no wonder shes uncomfortable. Common sense. Once again this has little to do with you and everything with her.

Another thing, did you know the surgery is a last resort for vulvodynia? And sometimes it doesn't work. I had it because I was at my wits end. I could no longer deal with it. But for some people it simply isn't an option. How would you like to hear "the only thing we can do now is hack off part of your penis?" Given what you've been saying on here I doubt that would fly with you to well. And it only works for localized provoked vulvodynia.

I think its YOUR attitude that's putting her off not actually her rejecting you. If I had a man who pressured me for sex 24/7 I wouldn't be too thrilled either. And no rejecting sex is not rejecting you. Ever consider she's scared to death? Or did that just not ever cross your mind?

I'd suggest a divorce. You sound like you hate her. Both of you are evidently very unhappy and have been for a long time. It's particularly horrible to see this happening in a marriage with children, because the children end up thinking that a bad relationship is normal, and get into bad relationships themselves.

For the record, no woman ever owes you sex. It is not "sadistic" to refuse to do something terribly painful and distressing. It is, however, sadistic to try to make someone else do something horribly painful which they do not want to do. I'd suggest reading up on the concept of "enthusiastic consent".

Hi New Guy,

I’m new here too, but seeing as you’ve received some rather scathing advice from the female contingent, I thought I’d weigh in with a different (still female) perspective.

First.  You are married.  19 years later.  You both get a prize just for showing up.  Marriage is like that – showing up is a win.  And regardless of your wife’s warmth, resilience, and ability to connect with you on any given day, please believe that your presence means. the. world.  I take issue with Takver’s advice here, which sounds tantamount to “just give up,” and insults the journey you’ve made together.  Don’t give up, on your marriage or yourself.

Second.  You are here, which means you’re looking for help, and letting off steam, and trying to find answers.  All good and necessary.  Your wife’s diagnosis is a lot to adjust to, for both of you.  So is the prospect of surgery.  Adjustment takes time and support.  Thank you for seeking out the help you need to stay marginally sane in this mess instead of just taking it out on your wife.

I have also been diagnosed with neuroproliferative vestibulodynia a few months ago, after scads of doctors and years of suffering.  My marriage has been through the wringer.  I keep expecting it to blow apart, but my husband is still here, still faithful.  Even though our culture tells us that youwilldiewithoutsex, another world is possible.  Love doesn’t have to die.
I can understand a bit of each of your perspectives here, because a.) I share a diagnosis with your wife and b.) I tend to be the one with the stronger sex drive who experiences sexual problems at a personal/rejection level.

Having a strong sex drive really sucks when sex isn’t possible.  There are some really good basic things to do with that drive (exercise; channel into other forms of love, creativity, & service), but the fact remains that you feel terrible.  I’m sorry.  I’ve been there.  I’m there.  And yes, it feels personal.  Please do yourself a favor and tell yourself the truth.  It isn’t about your manliness, or her womanliness.  Your value isn’t in your sexual activity or experience.

One of the biggest enemies of marriage isn’t sexlessness, it’s hopelessness.  It sounds like both of you are in need of hope.  
When my newest doctor told me she recommended surgery, I felt terrible.  I don’t want surgery.  I’ve seen pictures, researched, read up on the stats.  It’s not ruled out completely, but I want to try everything else first, because if surgery doesn’t work, they can’t just lick-and-stick the vestibule back on.  Getting worse would really suck.  So, I understand if your wife just can’t possibly even think about surgery right now.  It already feels like there’s a knife slicing around down there – the thought of letting an actual knife into the equation is overwhelming.  It makes me simply dizzy with fear, and no amount of success stories can reverse that at the moment.  I need time.  My husband says “This is long-term and we have all the time in the world.”  I need to hear that a lot.

If your wife is hesitant to give or receive any physical affection, that might indicate some underlying pain, fear or resentment.  Fear that affection (nice) will lead to painful activity (not nice). Resentment that the lines of communication aren’t open between you.  (She’s being pressured to have the surgery already; you’re being pressured to give up and not talk about sex.  Neither’s okay.)  And just like you must fight not to conflate sexual rejection with personal rejection, she must work not to conflate years of sexual pain with the idea that you don’t love her.  Your experiences may be more similar than you realize.  Awareness could help you both cut each other some slack, offer reassurance, and remind each other of the truth – that you’re going to see this through together.

If she’s complaining that you “never” initiate physical contact, it sounds like she misses being close too.  And the week without intercourse could have tanked for any number of reasons – ask her about them.  Instead of make-this-happen pressure, try “I miss our closeness. Can we try again? What worked? What didn’t?”  She might feel so much surgery/fix-it pressure that any sexual discussion feels overwhelming, so be respectful of timing and space.  But you both want the same thing, closeness.  Alternatively, any sexual activity might cause pain.  For myself, even after a couple years without any intercourse attempts, I have significant pain with arousal because of constant pelvic floor muscle spasms.  It’s hard to stay sex-positive when even thinking about it causes a physical pain response from the increased circulation.  Who knows what she’s struggling with on any given day?  Stay learning-focused.  There is no quick fix, and if she knows you’re in it with her, she’s much more likely to feel safe talking – and hugging.  Win.  Your presence means the world, and I hope she heals enough to tell you so.  

Does she know you’re glad she’s still there?  That you will love her even if it never gets better?  That you would love her even without a vagina?

“Her pain should only change frequency and what we do.”  True, in the long haul, the big picture.  And I know that you (both) would like this to goawayalready.  But the best thing you can do right now is to take the pressure off yourself and your wife.  You are already in it for the long haul.  Do the next thing.  The next thing might be simply to say “I love you and I’m not going anywhere.”  (I need to hear that at least once a day.)  It might be healing for her to hear “I got my hopes up about that surgery but I want to apologize for all the pressure.  I’ll support your decision and you can take all the time you need to explore options.”  You’re on the same team.  Remind one another.

Glad you’re still showing up.  Hang in there.  Your marriage is worth it.

except he NEVER mentioned he loved his wife once ever. He talks about resentment because his penis is getting ignored. Poor baby.

Rejected.803, you and I are in a minority on this forum, both being men married to women with vulvodynia.

You probably think this means you'll get a more sympathetic hearing from me than you have from some of the women, who have been very critical of you. Well, you won't. On the contrary, I think you are a shameful, selfish, ignorant excuse for a man.

You knew your wife had vulvodynia yet you had (penetrative) sex with her for, what, 18 years? Do you have the slightest conception of what you might have put her through during all that time? OK, so she didn't tell you how much it was hurting her. But you surely picked up on the clues.

You seem to equate sex with being desired or appreciated. No sex for you equals rejection. But in fact the 18 years of having sex are what risked you being rejected, and the absence of sex now is your wife's attempt to save the marriage.

You should start off by deciding whether or not you want to save your marriage. If you do, tell your wife you're happy to live without sex as long as she is, and also tell her you want to hold her close every night and love her in every other way.

Once you've done that, assuming you're for saving the relationship, you can focus on living without sex, but with closeness and love. It may be that, at some stage, your wife will decide to have the operation - not for you, so you can have sex, but for her, so she feels better. But it's her decision, and not something you should bring up, or pressure her into.

Well said Mark, thank you for posting! My boyfriend has a very similar mentality to you. Even though my vulvodynia is "cured" I still have adeno and endo which still makes sex uncomfortable some days. His mentality is OK so what? We're still together and we'll just enjoy the sex when we can. I'm glad there's more of my boyfriends mentality around. This guy sounds like a narcissist who only cares about his needs and wants. And it infuriates me. Anyway, I just want to say that you sound really caring and that your wife is very lucky to have you. It's hard to know what this pain is like, but I'm glad you understand that it's not something to take lightly.   

Thanks for your kind comments Alana, and congratulations on beating v.

I'm writing this while my wife and our baby son snooze on the sofa, both relaxed and happy. If I'd behaved like the gentleman who started this thread, I doubt I'd have either of them in my life. All I can say is, his wife must love him despite his lack of consideration, that's something to build on, and to cherish.

Probably not. Love is blind sometimes. Kinda sounds like they're on a rocky boat, eh?

My husband treated me really bad too. The 3 years we were together and I was dealing with this condition(the whole time) was the worst time of my life, so bad, ive blocked it out. We arnt together anymore, and honestly I never wanna see his face again, and it was the best decision I could have made for myself because of the way he made me feel.

As I was starting to get better, I started wanting sex again but then he would deny me, and make me feel disgusting and like he wasnt attracted to me anymore, because of all wed been thru (the bad sex, and no sex at all, my breakdowns, the fights) we hated eachother. It was already spoiled by then and the intimacy we couldnt get back.

I've been through a sexually abusive relationship as well. It seems to be horrifyingly common in people who have vulvodynia. If it hasn't been done already, we should have a thread to discuss things like enthusiastic consent, and what to do if your partner is trying to bully you into sex you don't want. It is never acceptable for someone to force or pressurise someone else into sex, especially when that sex is going to be painful. And quite apart from the fact that it's sexual assault or rape, really messes up the victim psychologically, and wrecks the relationship, it also makes the vulvodynia far worse.

When I became sexually active with my current partner, he asked my consent every time we did something for the first time. It was an absolute revelation. Bless him, he thought everyone did this. Funnily enough, the vulvodynia has mostly gone, and we're having a fabulous sex life. I still can't believe what I put up with from my ex. It isn't even necessarily about love, though in this case I did love him very much. Abusive relationships make you feel horribly trapped, and the abusive partner manages to convince you that your only option is to stay with them, shredding your self-esteem in the process.

And I still can't get over the OP calling his wife "sadistic" because she's refusing to let him do something appallingly painful to her. How on earth does anyone want sex that involves making your partner miserable and putting them into horrendous pain?

Takver, I'm pleased things are better for you now. Without being too explicit about things, I think most men are wired differently to the few who want to have vaginal sex with women they know will find it painful: it should be physically impossible. If a man gets pleasure from something that causes you pain, IMO that's not a normal man, and you're best off without him. Even if you didn't have v, he'd get pleasure from mistreating you in some other way.

Just leave it alone he's probably getting off to this.

Mark: just to clarify, are you saying that it's "physically impossible" for a man to have sex with a woman who is in pain? Are you saying that rape is physically impossible?

Wow he's standing up for you.. He said that it shouldn't be possible for a guy to WANT to have sex with someone whos hurting and pushing the issue. How is he saying rape isn't possible? He's saying that if vulvodynia weren't possible that guy you were dating would find another way to abuse you. Relax not everyone is against you

Takver wrote:Mark: just to clarify, are you saying that it's "physically impossible" for a man to have sex with a woman who is in pain?  Are you saying that rape is physically impossible?

Kind of, but not quite. What I mean is that if a man is wired 'normally, he gets off on his partner enjoying herself and loses his mojo pretty quickly if she isn't that into it, let alone if she's in pain.

So yes, I don't agree with whichever famous feminist said that 'all men are rapists'. I think most men are incapable of rape, but there's a small minority who are because they're wired wrongly so they get turned on by a woman being in pain or frightened.

BTW I'm not necessarily saying that the handful of men who want to have vaginal sex with their wives or partners who have v are necessarily potential rapists, just that the signs aren't good.

Hell I WANTED to have sex when I had V its a normal emotion but when the question of forcing and making someone feel like shit about it arises that's not ok

Wow, I didn't check for updates for a few days and this discussion took a hard left turn.

Alesha really seemed to have the best perspective on my situation. As for the rest, I don't know if something I wrote got lost in translation somewhere, if what I wrote was not read carefully, or what happened. I will be reading her reply several more times. Thank you.

Instead of addressing some of the (insert derogatory adjective) comments, I feel more like giving a update on our relationship. While some consider this narcissistic, it's more the nature of a web forum, because you can either talk about yourself (what you are going or been thru) or about someone else (and it's much easier to tear someone else apart).

The last 4 weeks have been much better, much less tense around the house. I wonder how much our counseling has helped that. After 13+ years of counseling, I don't really have high hopes, but the last couple sessions have been pretty good. I have been able to let off some steam as we have discussed some actions, habbits, and behaviors that really add to my frustration. She was able to address these issues. It's pretty hard for me to feel/believe that much productively occurs in our sessions because I'm in the room with 2 counselors. I often have thought that there is a secret counlelor code that guarantees that our counselor and my wife are teamed up against me to turn me into some pansy pacifist. Nope, that's not going to happen. So I felt that we had a pretty good talk. One of the biggest things (progress?) that came out of the two sessions was that my wife really seemed to want me to hug her. I know she has said this several times before, but it seemed that maybe she meant it. So I gave it a try. Most days now we hug and even a couple kisses. She has not rejected me yet, but I keep waiting for it. We seem to be getting along better in general, and she seems to like me hugging and even kissing (not too much) her.

I long for more. She is not in any hurry. I'm still just in daily survival mode.

Glad things are better, it takes time

I will however, tell you I couldn't have sex last night due to the pain I was in with my endo.  My boyfriend was all hot and ready and guess what?  He just said "its ok we'll try again some other time".  Maybe you need to react like that rather than feel like its about YOU when it is not.  Try to be a little bit more understanding with her, this shit hurts.  If you're constantly forcing the issue, it's no wonder she is reacting and pushing as far away as possible from you.  I think the counseling is a good idea tho so maybe see where it goes.

Wow, reading these comments has certainly hit home with me. My husband has been away working, so sex wasn't an issue but when he came back for a while, I explained how much sex hurt, especially as there is no foreplay and it's all over in 3 mins. He says he climaxes so quickly because he hasn't had sex. As it hurts so much I told him that if he continued to be so selfish, then sex was not going to happen. Anyway, he's been abroad again since I received my diagnoses and his comment of 'well you'd better pack it away then' showed me that he wasn't willing to try anything other than penetrative sex. When I told him how bad the pain can be, he referred to this awful condition as "twat pain". I am so angry, hurt, rejected and he has shown how little respect he has for me. Mark, I would love to have someone like you who respects his partner for all that she is, not just as a sexual object. I would love to have someone to cuddle with, but my husband refuses to even hug me if sex isn't on the cards. I know that I will end up leaving and face a financially insecure future as I can only work part-time and I'm not entitled to disability benefit as I haven't been in Australia for the required 10 years (even though they admit that I do pass the other requirements) but it's not only that; I feel rejected and objectified by someone I thought loved me. When all is going well, love is easy but real love is going through the bad times together. I would have been there for him if the situation had been reversed. I hope that this may give 'new guy' something to think about and that he starts cuddling his wife.

Hi Celticrose. As my last note indicated, things have been better (not real good, just better) here lately. My wife has been receptive of hugging, lightly rubbing her back, and a few kisses. She still believes (said) that the bed is only for sleeping. I obviously want sex with my wife. As you indicated, there are other forms of sex that we could be enjoying, but she doesn't want anything to do with me/sex. I think this is related to your situation because 10 years or so ago, I only wanted intercourse. She has claimed that she suggested non-intercourse sex, but I refused to hear/listen/consider that option. We were following the best advice from the doctors that she had, but she still had pain, and tried her best to hide it or minimize how bad it hurt. So that created a big problem for us beyond just the physical pain of her condition. Now the past is very confusing because every hurt and rejection I received from her has to be reevaluated. Each of those hurts and rejection has creaded a mindset, a normal pattern of behavior, and way of thinking about her and sex. Some may be right, but others are not. It's hard to figure out this new reality now because she didn't want me to know the truth of how much pain was involved. It's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that everything I thought I knew about why she was rejecting me was wrong. Thoughts of conspiracy or just a sadistic nature are common for me because even after all her enlightenment due to the diagnosis, now she refuses/rejects the very non-intercourse sex she said she wanted to try years ago.

Like I said, it's confusing for me.

Hopefully you can have the clear, direct, open, honest communication with your husband that we never could. Maybe if we had that, we would only have one issue to deal with.